A (Alter Gallery): You were previously known by the public for your achievements in the field of commercial photography. Did your commercial photography experience influence you in terms of your concepts and techniques?
Z (Zhou Yulong): There are many methods of technique and thinking in business work, getting along with some habits. In the beginning, I resisted these and hoped to get rid of them. Later, I found that it was not necessary. They are exactly my advantages. Don't think about whether it is commercial or not. It's relieved to think that the only difference between them for me is how they pay me back.
A: What made you want to create your own works?
Z: There is no concrete opportunity. Everyone has something to say. I always have something I want to express through paintings or pictures. After few years of works in commercial photography, money and time conditions are met. I gradually tried to shoot what I had wanted to shoot before. I've had a notebook for years to keep track of all the things I want to do. To be honest, even since I was a kid I have dreamed of being an artist without knowing anything about how. I just loved it. At that time, parents always wanted their children to learn maths, physics, and chemistry well, so they did not support me. I would secretly paint when they were at work. Maybe these limitations encouraged me.
A: Who or which genre has influenced your work?
Z: A lot. The list always changing with the time, which is the liner. In the 1990s, the Wangfujing Foreign Language Bookstore and the China National Publishers Import and Export Corporation were the main places where foreign publications could be found in Beijing. At that time, access for me to these books was rare due to the lack of money and internet. With great limitations, I thought "photographer" means Henri Cartier-Bresson, Richard Avedon, Robert Frank, and Marc Riboud. I thought "great photography" was just a black and white documentary. Later, more and more exhibitions and books gradually opened my horizon. So I was "civilized" late. When I break these former traditions I loved, it is difficult but relieved. Be careful not to let yourself rest on your laurels. The artistic environment which bases on the social background is important.
A: Is this "influence" changed? What do you think of the concept of "originality"?
Z: Everyone is inadvertently affected. In my opinion, there is no absolute originality but relevancy, whether it is clear or dim. In fact, what has a great influence on me is the history of photography, which will sort out a very clear clue, the relationship between photography and painting, and the relationship between photography and contemporary art. I didn't understand before but fortunately, I do now.
A: What makes you unique under this influence?
Z: Experience. Each person is unique while each individual is special. There is no work that is absolutely unique but different authors tell different stories. The premise is that it comes from the author's true expression.
A: How do you view the relationship between the subjective and the object in works? Do photos present objective pictures?
Z: No. It is the superposition of subjectivity. It is impossible for the author alone to present "objectivity", which only formed when the author's "subjectivity" resonates with the viewer's "subjectivity". The "objectivity" that belongs only to them.
A: The two most important propositions of contemporary photography, "Time" and "Space", how do you interpret them?
Z: I'm not quite sure what these two propositions mean in the question. In my opinion, the timeliness of photography does not need to be interpreted. It is the mother of photography, which already exists at the time of the shooting and will gradually pile up. Space is a process of dimensional reduction. Photography is a technical means of reducing 3D to 2D with some aesthetic understanding. I don't think it's "Time" or "Space" that matters. I prefer the imagination outside of the story. The way the photograph is presented is also important, that is, how works are read by the audience. Whether they are shown in mobile phone screens, picture albums, framed on the wall, or projection in the exhibition hall will produce a new field between the audience and the work. Therefore, the way of presentation is part of the final work. Photos should not be confined to two dimensions. They could have more possibilities. Time should also have two levels, one is the time of expression of the photo, and the other is the new time generated by the photo itself as material.
A: Most of your works are in the form of historical reproduction. But the points of concern are different. What is your original intention of "Recreate History"? Is there some commonality?
Z: First of all, I'm not recreating history. History cannot be recreated. As mentioned before, my expression is subjective and history is only a background. I have never considered or believed the history we are told to be true or credible. All the "letter history", is not "letter", it is only temporarily to be taken advantage of. That's what touches me and what I try to accurate. I am interested in using historical stories and materials to present my works. On the contrary, I think legends, fantasy stories, and myths are things closer to humanity. I always say that the history that we can see now is just a culling result. So I try to do archaeology, to do exploration, and to do analysis in a scientific way. Then here comes the original face of history stripped from the cocoon. We approach the truth, but we can never reach the truth. What is really interesting and valuable about history is the inaccessible space of imagination that can not be proved. Just like writing Chinese characters, what you write is the black part, but in fact, what you see is made up of countless blank spaces. The “Blank” fascinated me. The human imagination is the most poetic and romantic place, that is what I am looking for.
from The Chinese Bestiary series / 2008-2012
A: Some of your works are very classical with painting languages. How do you view the relationship between them?
Z: I love classical things, which I learned a lot from. What my work looks like now is the mixture of the classical things I loved and the commercial experience I have.
from 1912 series / 2010-2013
A: What is your future plan?
Z: Just play by ear.
God Bless Superstars No.10 / Silver Gelatin Print / 2021
A: In the works of God Bless Superstars, you seem to ignore the individual attributes of the characters. How do you define "Superstars"?
Z: Everyone is a "Superstar". When the "individual" is magnified in a crowd, it becomes a star. The series chose well-known people, both political and literary, and played down the character. Their labels will be reinterpreted by the viewer, and they will become blurred and equal. Human nature just still.
God Bless Superstars No.4 / Silver Gelatin Print / 2021
A: Are there any moments in the process that give you a deep feeling, or are they in line with your original intention?
Z: For me, the fun of this set lies in the scene. At the moment when the picture gradually emerges, a white background is formed in the void. It is a three-dimensional "paper", and it is constantly changing. These images have no real place to fall. Is the image still exist without the "paper"? Perhaps it is just an illusion at the end of the void? Are we perceiving images that actually exist? And all this thinking will eventually disappear as the image.
God Bless Superstars No.14 / Silver Gelatin Print / 2021
A: In the series of God Bless Superstars, you use the smoke as the projection screen. What is your purpose?
Z: I have been always considering something that is not credible, something that is not resident, something that affects us and their impermanence.
The Departed No.1013 / 2019
A: In your series of The Departed, there are many scenes of historical figures passing away which rich in details. How do you select the characters?
Z: The Departed series is also full of "Superstars."
The Departed No.130 / 2019
A: Through The Departed, what do you want to explore or discuss?
Z: "The most beautiful thing in the world is the victim," says Satoji Taijae in his book, The Setting Sun. In fact, we are all victims, we are the lying departed, but also the standing living. The unity of opposition between "standing" and "lying" is what I want to discuss, including the relationship between whether to behave or not.
A: Is there any particular topic in The Departed series that you are impressed with?
Z: A painting, named The Death of Aktien, derived from the ancient Greek myth. It said Aktien and his brothers went hunting. He wandered alone in the woods during the rest and accidentally saw the goddess Artemis was taking a shower. The goddess was very angry and turned Aktien into a deer. Aktien was killed by his own hound as prey. This picture is taken in the United States in 2019. It is about death, murder, and race. It can point to the individual, the group, even the current world pattern. Unfortunately, the COVID-19 swept the globe in 2020 which gives this work a new interpretation. But I still want it to be closer to humanity itself. The question of "humanity" is also the question of "human history". The parties of death, whether deer or people are "victims" in a certain social relationship and historical pattern.
The Departed No.326 / 2019
A: Your work always seems to raise a question or initiate a discussion. Do you have your own answers? How do you feel about the state of the work?
Z: I don't have the answers, and I'm terribly afraid of getting bogged down in preaching. Giving judgments is so easy and requires almost nothing but posing a question is to pose a consideration of possibility. I prefer to tell stories, just like good literature, which is plain without rhetoric or gimmicks. They throw a question for audiences to explore by themselves. Art can't answer anything.
from Breeze in March series / 2015
A: The elements presented in the 1934 series have a lot in common with the two series Breeze in March and Searching for the One. Is there some potential connection between them?
Z: 1934 is a continuation of previous works, inadvertently they are linked together. I grew up in the Northeast of China. I have always had a love affair with Jurchen, Later Jin, and the history of the Northeast of China, including the Manchuria Era. This group of works mainly describes the events in Changchun in 1932 after the last emperor left the Forbidden City and the Japanese established the puppet regime. The title 1934 is the first year of the Manchukuo government. This period is very close to many points in history, involving foreign invasion, the end of feudalism in China, the contention of a hundred schools of thought, and the division of warlords. There are my thoughts of racism and nationalism in this series of works. I shot the fake dragon bones before and I wanted to do a continuation. 1934 is presented in the form of international news pictures in the 1930s, with literature records on the back, which constitutes a virtual historical photo as a whole.
from Searching for the One series /2017
A: Besides the 1934 series, why do you prefer to title your works with the number of years?
Z: I like to name my works after the year. It's fun. The year is a symbol, it represents a ridiculous and the true and false can not tell the historical period. this symbol told me: "Oh, that is the first year of Kang De, the puppet Manchuria government, there was a Japanese diplomat named Inoue Akira and Puyi to see this keel." In 1934, the Japanese newspaper Shogyo Times recorded the story of the falling dragon in Yingkou. These works simulated such a story, mixing the true and false elements, leaving the part that could be imagined.
1934 No.01/ Silver Gelatin Print / 2020
A: It's very literary.
Z: Yes, a lot of authors, such as Jorge Luis Borges and W.G. Sebald, create new stories in the combination of history and false propositions. Including Yasushi Inoue's Dun Huang, which tells the origin of the Sutra Caves in Mogao Grottoes that causes many controversies. It is said that there is a paper record of this story in the Sutra Cave, and the author just read this document from Otani Mitsuri. Whether the documents are forgeries or not doesn't matter. They re-established some kind of false history. It was a very serious and romantic thing.
A: What do you think is the meaning of this literary expression or this "tendency" in your work?
Z: I think it's an addendum. As I said before, the myth is more believable because it is purer and has the temperature of a human being. Historical fiction is, after all, literature. History is history as fiction is fiction. They can all be fake. It's like doing an interesting chemistry experiment to put them together. What we call official history is always revised and rewritten.
from the Grand Temple series /2019
A: What is the origin of the series the Grand Temple and the Hill?
Z: A long time ago, when I was in the Tibetan area, I had a chat with a little lama. He said that each person burdens two butter lamps on both shoulders and holds a light in the heart, which will never be extinguished during times. I believe that besides the brain and the body, there is something called consciousness, or soul, something that cannot be measured. I've always wanted to express that feeling.
from the Grand Temple series /2019
A: Why did you finally choose to illuminate the temple with a flashlight?
Z: The original idea was to use human power to illuminate a huge landscape, such as a mountain in darkness. At ordinary times, the scenery we can distinguish depends on the energy of the sun. That is the world in broad daylight. Many great landscapes, in fact, are hidden, in dark corners, just like the truth. As the literature Shadows Psalm said, the dirties and neglected place hides fabulous beauty. So I wanted to illume a mountain by myself. That was the first idea. In fact, it represents me as a living individual, to have a relationship with nature.
from the Hill series /2019
A: The Hill shoots abandoned cars on American highways. Why did you name it the Hill?
Z: America's economic system and culture were built on highways. The roads of America are like the lines of the palm of your hand. The road is littered with abandoned cars that once performed functions such as family travel, business, romance, or homicide. This implies several elements, including the economic system, the cultural context, and the political structure of the western world after the founding of the United States, which have a profound influence and significance on China and the world today. The hills allude to these discarded metals, the products of human industrial technology, abandoned there like hills and burial bags, and you can even understand the story of Souter and San Francisco through them.
A: What is the connection between these two series? Why do you put them together?
Z: The juxtaposition of the Great Temple and the Hill was originally planned. I wanted to work on two projects that were completely different but closely related. The Hill is my understanding of western culture and economy. The Great Temple is Oriental, and it comes from spiritual and religious discussions. These objects in both series seem to be abandoned, destroyed, and rebuilt. Whether material or spiritual, whether western or eastern, there is some kind of inheritance, this collision has sparked. I use individual actions to transform them into new landscapes, to create this spark. This is also my doubt and experience of the East and West world today.
A: What kind of "doubt", can you talk about it in detail?
Z: "Doubt" is a question: why is our world the way it is, what is the result of global, east-west, spiritual and physical extinction and evolution? What is the belief of the Chinese people today? What are the foundations of life? What do you live for? How to engage with the world?
Interviewed by Alter Gallery
Translated by Ma Xinyi